tspong
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What do you think?
From the Delaware State News:
‘Speed trap’ sign OK for Felton-area man
Attorney General: First Amendment rights violated
By Andrew Abel
Delaware State News
FELTON — A Felton-area resident recently received notice from the state Attorney General’s Office that a sign in his front yard that read "Speed Trap Ahead," was in fact legal and part of his First Amendment rights.
Kurt E. Healy, who lives on southbound U.S. 13 just north of Felton, erected the sign Nov. 3, one day after being ticketed for an expired registration just a short distance from his home.
After he erected the sign, the Delaware Department of Transportation sent Mr. Healy a letter notifying him that it was not approved by DelDOT, and if it was not removed by Christmas Eve, authorities would come and remove it for him. He asked DelDOT officials if he could get approval for the sign, but was told it would never pass.
The Healy family waited outside on Dec. 24 for someone from the department to come and remove the sign, but no one ever showed up, Mr. Healy said.
The letter cited title 21 of state code which states, "The Department of Transportation may erect and maintain all appropriate signals, lights or any other type of sign on private property over which the Department of Safety and Homeland Security has assumed jurisdiction."
The law also states, "Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the erection and maintenance of signs and signals by private owners of the real property, so long as such signs and signals are for the safety and convenience of the public and are approved by the Department of Transportation."
Mr. Healy’s wife, Lisa, contacted a lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union in an attempt to fight the decision. The lawyer contacted the state Attorney General’s Office.
Jason Miller, spokesman for the state Attorney General’s Office, said one of its lawyers consulted with DelDOT about the validity of Mr. Healy’s argument.
"One of our core missions is to protect people’s First Amendment right to the freedom of private expression. In this case, the Healys’ rights were being interfered with and the law was actually on their side," said Drewry N. Fennell, executive director of the ACLU of Delaware.
Darrel Cole, spokesman for DelDOT, said the department unintentionally cited a law that did not apply to the sign in question and will take no further action. He added that DelDOT responded only after the Felton Police Department filed a complaint about the sign, and that DelDOT was acting with the interest of protecting the safety of drivers and passengers on Delaware roads.
Recently, someone came into the yard while the family was at home, and smashed the sign into pieces with a metal chair that was sitting next to it, Mrs. Healy said.
Refusing to get a new piece of foam board, Mr. Healy salvaged the tattered sign by gluing the pieces together and attaching them to planks of wood. The pink sign is now illuminated by a security light and continues to warn drivers of the "Speed Trap Ahead."
The speed limit on U.S. 13 drops from 55 mph to 45 mph just after Mr. Healy’s house as drivers approach town. Felton police will often lie in wait there and catch speeders, Mr. Healy said.
He originally planned on leaving the sign up for 111 days, correlating with the $111 fine he received, but now he intends on keeping it up indefinitely, Mr. Healy said.
"I could see $40-$50 for not getting to the Division of Motor Vehicle on time, but $111?" he said. "That’s ridiculous."
Mr. Healy said he received several phone calls from people telling him the sign was a great idea and that he shouldn’t take it down.
"I’m just trying to slow people down ahead of time before they get to town," he said. "I’m saving them from having to pay a big fine they haven’t budgeted for."
Staff writer Andrew Abel can be reached at 741-8272 or at aabel@newszap.com.
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Helen here
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Hey had a chance on my way to Seaford to see the sign , and it works great.
Guess free speech still has a standing.
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Two Cents
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OK. It appeared not too large in the photo. I guess I need to take a road trip tomorrow --- at safe speeds, of course!
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FromFelton
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Two Cents wrote: I believe your sign to not be sufficiently large. You clearly need a sheet of plywod -- or at a minimum, half a sheet.
It is about the size of a sheet of plywood.
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Two Cents
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I believe your sign to not be sufficiently large. You clearly need a sheet of plywod -- or at a minimum, half a sheet.
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Nature Lover
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Good for you!!! I'm glad things have turned to your favor!!! Keep up the good work.
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coophealy
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For those of you that don't get up this way, I thought I would post a picture of the sign after my husband "put it back together". As you can see, it is also my avatar now. Attachment: 100_2050.JPG (Downloaded 407 times)
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CitizenUSA
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I hope they sent a copy to FPD too, just in case there are any more calls from those curious people, which I bet amounted to officers calling in to the station to report the sign when it first went up.
Now hopefully, as I said before, more serious concerns of the towns people regarding the FPD that have been brought up in this forum will be addressed, and who knows, maybe someday this little town could be known for something a little more positive that just being a speed trap.
Why to stand your ground. And everyone needs to stand their ground for Bluesman too. Congrats and ^5
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coophealy
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FromFelton wrote: This thread is about the Speed Trap sign just north of Felton in case anyone forgot.
Well, hello again everyone. I'll get us back on topic. I want to update everyone on our sign. The attorney at the ACLU office sent a letter to DelDOT, on our behalf, stating that she did not believe that the statute that was cited pertained to the sign in our yard. She also wanted DelDOT to state their intentions.
She received a return call from the AG's office on DelDOT's behalf. The AG attorney agreed that the statute does not pertain to our sign. He said that he has told DelDOT to leave us (and our sign) alone!!
The ACLU attorney told me to contact her again if anyone tries to say that our sign is illegal. So, it looks like the sign is going to stay, at least, for 111 days (78 days and counting). The sign is now lit up at night and of course, it will stay that way for security purposes, so no one is tempted to trespass again to destroy it. Thanks for all the support. It has been great. Oh, and by the way, Kurt and I are Bluesman supporters!! I have posted on his behalf in the other forum. Have a good night everyone!
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FromFelton
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Mabye another thread should be started to discuss issues not relating to the topic. I am new to this forum, but seriously, on any other forum on the internet the moderators would have deleted content not relating to the topic of the thread.
This thread is about the Speed Trap sign just north of Felton in case anyone forgot.
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harveyC
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LCR wrote: Hobnobbing wrote: Bluesman wrote: stinky wrote: there is one post on this page by a guest, sweet willie, and his unedited post is pertinent to the conversation and not directed at you. i'm just suggesting you keep it in the child support thread or your special troll thread, no need to pepper threads with requests for bully back up when these threads have nothing to do with your issue.
I said look through the whole topic. The "guests" are all one in the same person, including DING DONG, Sweet Wille, Felton, and marihog.
Yep I see who the "GUEST" is now. Bluesman didn't use aliases the ban was wrong he did not make the post. He had already turned it over to the Delaware State Police for investigation.
Last edited on Fri Jan 23rd, 2009 11:33 pm by
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CitizenUSA
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This has really become a pathetic display of what "adults???" can act like. What happened to the original post??? The same thing that has happened to the rest of the forums where these "people" have entered . They have done nothing to respond to the post, but just go in and make nasty comments, make threats, harrass, stalk etc. For some reason I was also singled out by some of them, for what reason I have no idea. But I was stalked and had my posts repeatedly reposted by You Again. Then I started getting P m's from them making unfounded comments about Bluesman. Nothing but a bunch of bullies who don't know how to have adult conversations so they start trouble. I hope the police can take care of these miserably "people" . They need a serious wake up call. And I certainly hope that if they have children, their children don't grow up to be the same kind.
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Hobnobbing
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Bluesman wrote: stinky wrote: stop dragging that garbage over into this thread. it has nothing to do with the original post.
Why don't you look at all the names with"guest" beneath the name all posts in this topic all the same person that have been deleted by the webmaster.
"I didn't drag this into this forum the person who keeps getting deleted did. "
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Hobnobbing
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Bluesman wrote: stinky wrote: there is one post on this page by a guest, sweet willie, and his unedited post is pertinent to the conversation and not directed at you. i'm just suggesting you keep it in the child support thread or your special troll thread, no need to pepper threads with requests for bully back up when these threads have nothing to do with your issue.
I said look through the whole topic. The "guests" are all one in the same person, including DING DONG, Sweet Wille, Felton, and marihog.
Yep I see who the "GUEST" is now.
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Bluesman
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stinky wrote: there is one post on this page by a guest, sweet willie, and his unedited post is pertinent to the conversation and not directed at you. i'm just suggesting you keep it in the child support thread or your special troll thread, no need to pepper threads with requests for bully back up when these threads have nothing to do with your issue.
I said look through the whole topic. The "guests" are all one in the same person, including DING DONG, Sweet Wille, Felton, and marihog.Last edited on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 08:12 pm by
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Hobnobbing
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I sure wish I could figure out some way to put a sign up in front of my house saying SLOW DOWN!
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stinky
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there is one post on this page by a guest, sweet willie, and his unedited post is pertinent to the conversation and not directed at you. i'm just suggesting you keep it in the child support thread or your special troll thread, no need to pepper threads with requests for bully back up when these threads have nothing to do with your issue.
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Bluesman
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stinky wrote: stop dragging that garbage over into this thread. it has nothing to do with the original post.
Why don't you look at all the names with"guest" beneath the name all posts in this topic all the same person that have been deleted by the webmaster.
I didn't drag this into this forum the person who keeps getting deleted did.
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stinky
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stop dragging that garbage over into this thread. it has nothing to do with the original post.
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CitizenUSA
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First of all that website does not exist according to that link you posted. Second of all, people are making this a personal vendetta in a public forum which is TOTALLY UNCALLED FOR. And third, You Again is harrassing more than just Blues . So much for adults discussing important matters.
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CitizenUSA
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Thanks Bill. I was wondering what was going on. He has gone to all my postings and just copied and reposted everything. Anyone else having this problem???
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Bluesman
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I need everyones help please report YOU AGAIN to webmaster@newszap.com for spamming. The guy has been harassing and stalking me since I got out of the hospital last week.
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Number1
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Agreed Willie. The Healys are doing their best to spread that message...
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Sweet Willie
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You lead foots do the speed limit and you don't have anything to worry about.
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Bluesman
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jerseagirle wrote: Yes, I wouldn't have put the sign up. Yes, I am a supporter of the police. Still, none of that would give me the right to make accusations against anyone or write something hurtful. The Healy's and the police are real people with families. The accusations and insinuations hurled form both sides can potentially harm either side. Is that really what anyone wants to accomplish here?
I support the police as well as I believe we all do, BUT I can't imagine that you would support police officers who abuse the system or the power that we as citizens who pay their salaries empower them with.
While I agree the only name's used repeatedly are the Healy's, not any specific Felton police officers by name. I personally have not seen one shred of evidence that any Felton police officer or his family has been maligned by any person posting in this thread. On the other hand issues have been brought up about the Healy families private lives that have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion about the sign. This is typical of internet trolls (I'm not implying or saying you are one) whose only purpose if to shift the focus from the topic at hand.
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jerseagirle
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JD, I spoke to Lisa personally and explained to her exactly how I felt. While I wouldn't have put the sign up, I don't see how that would give me the right to bash someone. While I have been ticketed 3 times in two years, it doesn't give me the right to bash the police. Some of the things that have been posted on here are pointless arguments and only serve to hurt someone, the Healy's included. I have known the Healy's for a few years now and they know me well enough to know that any thought that pops into my head flies out of my mouth.
How you can compare me to someone who's opinions clearly differ from mine, I don't understand. Yes, I wouldn't have put the sign up. Yes, I am a supporter of the police. Still, none of that would give me the right to make accusations against anyone or write something hurtful. The Healy's and the police are real people with families. The accusations and insinuations hurled form both sides can potentially harm either side. Is that really what anyone wants to accomplish here?
Last edited on Wed Jan 14th, 2009 07:26 pm by jerseagirle
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Bluesman
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I would certainly say that they appear to be one in the same. Let's not judge in haste, as I did.
Last edited on Wed Jan 14th, 2009 11:06 am by
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jdcoven
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I'm wondering two things:
Is Feltonmommy still on vacation?
AND
Is she orignally from Jersey?
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CitizenUSA
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The discussion in this forum is a private citizen's right to place a sign on his private property, regardless of the reasoning behind it. And the fact that the Felton PD stepped in has opened a further discussion of police activity that more than a few townspeople find objectionable. The fact that no other activity besides writing speeding tickets has been added to the discussion leads many to believe that they are nothing but a revenue generating force. And the fact that so many people have witnessed FPD disobeying the same laws they ticket others for is more reason to question what exactly their purpose serves. Maybe it's time to cut back to a part time police force which would decrease the revenue needed to sustain them and allow the State Police to continue to cover the unincorperated areas. It is a small town not a big city.
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jerseagirle
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Lisa, not once did I attack you or Kurt on a personal level. I stated that people on both sides have been out of line with things that have been said.
As for what my feelings about the sign are, I told Kurt when it first went up that I would have never done that. I am not Kurt and do not expect Kurt to act as I would have. But, that isn't what the debate here is about.
Why is it that you feel that you need to be so defensive when I didn't say one negative word about you or Kurt? You didn't make the accusations. I disagreed with both sides for things that were said. Sorry if you feel that I was attacking you, but I wasn't.Last edited on Tue Jan 13th, 2009 11:02 pm by jerseagirle
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FromFelton
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what service is that.
Imagine a senerio, Imagine the Felton Bank, which is right in the middle of Felton, gets robbed.
I understand that yes, the couple of officers that are on duty at the time, will respond (assuming their not too busy writing a ticket).
But minutes later, State Police will come pouring in, and take over the situation.
Do we really need the double coverage in this small town?
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jerseagirle
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My point was that the Felton Police do a lot more then sit on the highway and run radar. They provide an invaluable service to our community. The point of this forum was to discuss whether or not you feel that the Healy's civil rights are being violated. Not to agree or disagree with the ticket Kurt received. Not to decide where the police can and cannot pee. And certainly not to bash and make baseless accusations against anyone. To say that you know one officer who would do that is wrong. Disagreeing against the sign doesn't equal guilt.
Take care and remember that the people you bash are real and have families that your harsh words and accusations effect.
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coophealy
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jerseagirle wrote: Kurt knows my view on the sign since I told him so when the sign was put up.
Which is what exactly? Why don't you share your views with the people here since you even stated that is what the forum is for.
The purpose was for people to discuss the sign.
I believe that almost everyone is doing that. Some have decided to add their sense of humor and some have used the forum to attack Kurt and I on a personal level.
In order for the Felton police to write 500 tickets a month, they would have to write a ticket a minute since the police aren't on duty 24/7.
Actually, the 2008 Comprehensive Plan (regarding the Town of Felton) states, "The Felton Police Department serves residents within the Town’s Boundaries and consists of a Police Chief, four full-time officers, one part-time officer, and a part-time clerk... The Felton Police Department provides 21-hour coverage daily." So actually, they are on duty 21/7.
I sincerely doubt that any of the police would waste their time or energy to commit a crime as petty as destroying a sign that appears to be made of foam.
You could be right. It could be one of those people that have personal feelings against us like the ones that have posted on here.
I think a sign of their class is that they haven't lowered themselves to the level that this forum has sunk to in an effort to defend themselves from the unrealistic accusations and childish name calling that this has all become.
How do you know that they aren't one of the anonymous posters? Didn't FeltonMommy and felton called Kurt and I "childish"?
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Two Cents
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tspong wrote: The police department received a number of calls about the sign from curious townspeople, prompting Sgt. Christopher R. Swan, of the Felton Police Department, to look into the matter. He contacted DelDOT after discovering the sign was in violation of state code.
The sign has not caused any change in the number of tickets issued, Chief Brown said. In November 2007, the police department issued 493 tickets, he said. Last month it issued 503 tickets.
"If someone were to look at the sign and get into an accident, he could be held liable," Sgt. Swan said. "He could get sued and lose his house."
Well, if the 500 tickets per month is an exageration, it is one set forth in the news by the Felton police chief, according to the quoted piece piece from a Delaware State News article that started this topic.
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FromFelton
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jerseagirle wrote: Kurt knows my view on the sign since I told him so when the sign was put up. I am posting simply because this forum has gone completely off track. The purpose was for people to discuss the sign. Not attack, accuse or make libel statements regarding anyone. I have seen some pretty strong things said on here, from both sides. I honestly cannot believe that people have the audacity to say some of these things. I am still trying to figure out what in the heck Elvis has to do with the matter, or the offensive picture of a turban wearing Obama on Elvis's body means.
I sincerely doubt that any of the police would waste their time or energy to commit a crime as petty as destroying a sign that appears to be made of foam. To say so is just silly. As for any comments regarding the class of any of the police, class has nothing to do with doing their job. In order for the Felton police to write 500 tickets a month, they would have to write a ticket a minute since the police aren't on duty 24/7. They are busy men, but it isn't feasible to be that productive. I think a sign of their class is that they haven't lowered themselves to the level that this forum has sunk to in an effort to defend themselves from the unrealistic accusations and childish name calling that this has all become.
Take care.
You might want to check your math. There are 10,400 minutes in an average work month that has 40 hour weeks. Thats a ticket every 20.8 minutes.
Thats also assuming its 500 tickets per cop, I thought it was for the department as a whole, which has more than one cop.
BTW, I would say that in most instances, that I would doubt that a cop would destroy the sign, but I think that there is one Felton cop in perticular that would, and I think everyone knows who I'm talking about.
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jerseagirle
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Kurt knows my view on the sign since I told him so when the sign was put up. I am posting simply because this forum has gone completely off track. The purpose was for people to discuss the sign. Not attack, accuse or make libel statements regarding anyone. I have seen some pretty strong things said on here, from both sides. I honestly cannot believe that people have the audacity to say some of these things. I am still trying to figure out what in the heck Elvis has to do with the matter, or the offensive picture of a turban wearing Obama on Elvis's body means.
I sincerely doubt that any of the police would waste their time or energy to commit a crime as petty as destroying a sign that appears to be made of foam. To say so is just silly. As for any comments regarding the class of any of the police, class has nothing to do with doing their job. In order for the Felton police to write 500 tickets a month, they would have to write a ticket a minute since the police aren't on duty 24/7. They are busy men, but it isn't feasible to be that productive. I think a sign of their class is that they haven't lowered themselves to the level that this forum has sunk to in an effort to defend themselves from the unrealistic accusations and childish name calling that this has all become.
Take care.
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Two Cents
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Radford.Highlander wrote: I'd like to believe that Felton PD has a little more class than that. What kind of dirt bag cares that much to actually do something like that?
NOW BACK TO MY ORIGINAL QUESTION: When can we get all these Karen Hartley-Nagel signs taken down? Do I have to call the Delaware State News and get an article written?
You are delusional. The Felton PD has little enough class to sit with the specific intention and actually issued 500 speeding tickets per month in the immediate vicinity of the Healey's home. Who was it that was quoted in a newspaper article as saying that they could face legal consequences if some hapless motorist became involved in an accident because they were busy reading the Healey's sign? I suppose that one could conclude that, in the interest of insulating the Healeys from such a potential problem, their sign was rendered unreadable.
Concerning the Hartly-Nagle signs -- I agree with you. If you feel that strongly about them, why don't you call the state's roadside signage enforcement agency -- DelDOT and voice your complaint where it would matter?
Last edited on Tue Jan 13th, 2009 02:05 pm by Two Cents
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Radford.Highlander
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Two Cents wrote: Probably the work of the felton pd. Who else would even care?
I'd like to believe that Felton PD has a little more class than that. What kind of dirt bag cares that much to actually do something like that? We really live in an odd society in today's age.
NOW BACK TO MY ORIGINAL QUESTION: When can we get all these Karen Hartley-Nagel signs taken down? Do I have to call the Delaware State News and get an article written? Mr. and Mrs. Healy, I decided that in order to get attention to this matter, I would like to put a large sign in your front yard that reads, "Taken Down the Karen Hartley-Nagel Signs" Hope all is well for you two. Take care.
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Two Cents
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Probably the work of the felton pd. Who else would even care?
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CitizenUSA
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I can narrow the time frame down a bit more.. I was heading north at between 4:30-4:40pm and the sign was still intact and I saw the 2 chairs next to it. Hope that helps. I can't imagine someone going out of their way to do something like that, but I hope you get an answer and press charges.
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Bluesman
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It is a shame when you were exercising your right to Freedom of Speech in a peaceful manner that someone would feel the need to respond with violence, and commit a crime ....... a true commentary on far to many useless people in today's society. The person/people who did this are Cowards stalking around in the dark commiting cowardly acts.
In the words of the great Mahatma Gandhi :
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”
Mr. and Mrs Healy give me a few weeks to recover and Cristina and still plan on coming over to meet you and your family. From talking to both of you I know without a doubt if this person thinks you will be intimidated by what they did and have said they are sadly mistaken.
Bill
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jdcoven
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Unbelievable! Someone had to witness that, especially at that time of day and right on the highway! I hope that they report it and the vandals are caught. Keep going Lisa and Kurt! You're in the right and you do have support out here.
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coophealy
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FromFelton wrote: Please keep us posted on what happens!
Well, guess what!? Someone came onto our property between 4 pm and 6:45 pm and trashed the sign. I came home from work to find the sign in pieces. Someone took the chair that was beside the sign and used it to smash the sign. It was actually in 10 pieces. My husband and kids were inside while it happened. Someone either had to stop on the highway and get out of a car, or walk up the side property to do it. Anyway, I have filed a report with the State Police. Two crimes were committed, trespassing and destruction of private property. Kurt has put the sign back together. Now since someone has chosen to be destructive and really break the law (against us), the sign now has a spotlight on it (donated from my father)!!! I will keep everyone updated. In the meantime, I hope everyone has a restful, peaceful, and good night!!Attachment: 100_2046.JPG (Downloaded 335 times) Last edited on Tue Jan 13th, 2009 03:45 am by coophealy
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FromFelton
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coophealy wrote: CitizenUSA wrote: And is the Healy's sign still there?? Haven't been up the highway recently to look.
Yes, it is still there. We have been contacted by an attorney from the ACLU. She is contacting DelDOT regarding this situation. There was also two men that came onto our property Friday morning....passed the "No Trespassing" signs. We have no idea who they were. They measured our sign, then measured the town limits sign. We could not get out in time to question them. We will let you know if we are contacted again.
I am also going to contact a lawyer about the few members that have chose to slander us. Kurt and I can turn the other cheek, but there is a line that has been crossed. Newszap will release the information that they have if they are given a court order. I will be looking into that. I have the forum saved (before it was edited by the webmaster).
I'm really happy to hear that. I like to see people take a stand and not be pushed around. Mabye our police officers will think twice before trying to push people around. Please keep us posted on what happens!
The guys measuring your sign sounds funny. Are they trying mabye to find a law about how big the sign can be? If so, mabye your lawyer can hit them for tresspassing if they try to cite you, after all, they had to walk by the no trespassing signs to do it, they should have gotten your permission first.
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CitizenUSA
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I'd think about putting up that " No Trespassing Violators will be shot and Survivors will be Shot AGAIN" sign. LOL. And anyone who wants to come on the property (Del Dot, FPD) could call and make an appt. Not like they don't know how to reach you!! LOL ^5
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coophealy
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CitizenUSA wrote: And is the Healy's sign still there?? Haven't been up the highway recently to look.
Yes, it is still there. We have been contacted by an attorney from the ACLU. She is contacting DelDOT regarding this situation. There was also two men that came onto our property Friday morning....passed the "No Trespassing" signs. We have no idea who they were. They measured our sign, then measured the town limits sign. We could not get out in time to question them. We will let you know if we are contacted again.
I am also going to contact a lawyer about the few members that have chose to slander us. Kurt and I can turn the other cheek, but there is a line that has been crossed. Newszap will release the information that they have if they are given a court order. I will be looking into that. I have the forum saved (before it was edited by the webmaster).
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mykal21_29906
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I want to first commend the Felton Police for for doing the job that they do. However, the problem with that speed trap is that they sit in an area that doesn't really allow drivers to slow down at a reasonable rate. By sitting barely 20 yards beyond where the speed limit drops, they are posing more of a hazard by causing motorists to slam on their brakes in order to slow down on time. Furthermore, from where they sit they are shooting radar out of the 45 mph zone and into the 55 mph zone. Finally, they sit at that same spot very near 24 hours a day, 7 days a week preying on tourists who don't know just how strictly that speed zone is enforced. I travel for my job, through Felton, 4 or 5 times a week or more and I see it it every time.
The man with the sign in his front yard should also be commended. At least he is giving motorists ample warning to slow down before the speed zone and by doing so he is protecting the Felton public by causing everyone to not speed through town and motorists not to slam on their brakes when they see a cop sitting right behind the speed limit sign. I support our police but go do some real police work and catch some drug dealers or rapists. People who are really hurting the community. Sitting in one spot 24 hours a day is not good police work, it's lazy police work.
One final thought. Freedom of speech. If DelDOT tries to force him to take his sign down (which is in no way lude or offensive) then they have to force everyone to take their signs down. It's just not going to happen unless they spend our tax dollars fighting such a stupid battle.
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Hartlyboy
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DNA, shame on you for criticiisng the trashy developer signs.. Don't you know they are a protected class in Dealaware? If DelDOT ever got serious about enforcing that law [that they seem so intent on applying to the speed trap sign], they could garner enough income from developer fines that they could build the latest version of the Inlet bridge.
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